Showing posts with label von neumann probes. Show all posts
Showing posts with label von neumann probes. Show all posts

Sunday, August 30, 2020

New Approaches on What the Fermi Paradox Means for the Future of Humanity

I was lucky to attend a video lecture by James Miller, economist at Smith College, facilitated by Joshua Fox. Thanks for having this event! I contacted James to let him know I would be posting this and to let him proofread my recapitulation of his argument so as to avoid mis-paraphrasing him; my thanks to him for taking the time to correct me on several points. Of course any errors are mine.

Much of this is familiar terrain for those of us who spend our time considering X-risk and the Fermi paradox. Miller's thesis is that we are at a critically important point in human history, a window where we think that in the near future we can start colonizing the galaxy (the year 2614 at earliest, by this calculation) but at the same time where we are smart enough to destroy ourselves. Since it is not obvious that the galaxy has already been colonized by other civilizations, there may be a Great Filter stopping this from happening. Miller uses the analogy of a person about to climb a mountain, believing that everyone else who has attempted it has died in the process.

Several challenges were discussed by attendees. (If you attended the lecture and want to claim credit for your question, please comment below, thanks.)
  1. It's too early to say there are no civilizations; it may not be so easy to detect them or rule them out. We're still discovering metazoans in Manhattan so it seems a little early to rule out von Neumann probes on low gravity bodies in the solar system. We've barely begun to catalog the fauna of our own ocean floors. We could not detect a twin Earth emitting the same radio energy (the C-index), even if it was orbiting Alpha Centauri. Miller points out that even if there were only a few civilizations in the Milky Way preceding us, "the galaxy is older than it is big", and these earlier civilizations could have colonized it already.

  2. He made the point that the things which prove advantageous in the midst of evolving on a single planet might have no such advantages in terms of galactic colonization. Very true; I would argue that we are much more likely to find alien artifacts, than the aliens themselves, as all of us meat-creatures might be stuck on our planets while our machines colonize the galaxy. To that end, (my point) it's entirely plausible that the Solar System could be littered with space probes and we haven't found any yet, or did, and just didn't know what we were looking at.

  3. I would therefore extend Miller's analogy like this. Only in the process of climbing the mountain, does our climber develop wilderness skills and begin to see things that resemble his own boot tracks, etc. and finally as he approaches the summit realizes that lots of people have climbed it, come down the other side, and their descendants have built large villages which due to his previous ignorance he has not been able to locate. (Or, maybe just some of their livestock, trained birds-of-prey, etc. have made it.)

  4. Active attempts to bring ourselves to the attention of aliens have occurred (METI) and been roundly criticized. Miller notes that the risk of extinction from aliens over the next few centuries is lower than eg bio-terrorism or an intelligence singularity. True; but we still may be making life more difficult for our descendants. Related to this, he proposes an ingenious experiment that for a month we should shout our heads off electromagnetically, and see if there is any strange activity. While I agree it's unlikely we'll get invaded next week, I still think the risk:benefit does not work out and there are just too many unknowns, and we may be screwing our distant descendants. Miller suggested that enforcing a moratorium on METI-like activities is probably impossible.

  5. He argues that technological singularities of the paperclip maximizer variety are unlikely to be a major contributor to the Great Filter, because we would be able to see the boundary of it as it expanded (unless it was doing so at light speed.) My concern with this is that, while an AGI might be much smarter than its creators, it is still not omniscient, and the impact of its actions could in principle still outstrip its ability to predict that impact. This is the story behind the rise of human intelligence and the sixth great extinction that we're living through, but has happened in pulses of endogenous extinctions throughout Earth's history (the rise of superpredators every fifty million years or so, the Oxygen Catastrophe). The lesson of evolution here on Earth is that the smarter things are, the faster their behavioral plasticity "catches up with them" in exactly these sorts of disasters, so to suppose that alien paperclip maximizers are immune to this problem is to argue that a qualitative change in ecological dynamics has occurred.

  6. There were two (possibly unappreciated) related questions asked: one about civilization perhaps being bad for sustaining civilization (witness declining birth rates in the developed world) and another that intelligences might prefer virtual reality - involution - to expanding into space. Miller points out the passive version of the "baseball bat" problem: you can live in heaven, but if a bad guy comes and bashes your server with a club and you as you sleep in your VR pod, that's the end of it. (Related: dynamic complex systems like minds, in principle, tend to drift toward delusion and suffer inherent cyclic crises.) It's a thesis for someone in psychology or a related field to note whether there is causation or just correlation between the increasingly encompassing virtual reality-like entertainments available in the developing world, and declining birth rates.

  7. One questioner asked about the distinction between intelligence and civilization - humans have had a "civilization" only since agriculture. This was a really original line of thought. Therefore, there could be many alien intelligences, but few or no civilizations. One solution for humans avoiding the Great Filter would be to abandon civilization and go back to hunting-gathering - not directly suggested, but this is the only implication of such an argument I could think of. The extreme number of assumptions built in to discussion of alien civilizations should always be pointed out - civilization is something that collections of human nervous systems do, and it is not clear it is a necessary consequence of intelligence. (As a physician I ask: do we assume the aliens will have similar EKG waveforms and liver enzymes as us? No, because that's ridiculous. So we do we assume that the even more complex activity of another organ, that we don't even share with other animals on this planet, is automatically going to be meaningfully similar?)


There's also a psychological point to be made about "big picture" arguments (the singularity, the Fermi paradox, the simulation argument, etc.) They have a tendency to converge on either prophetic religion-like conclusions (e.g. the singularity as the rapture for nerds) or Lovecraft (the estivation hypothesis, which was mentioned in a question and made me think about this.) When we talk about these things, there are many many unknowns. In such discussions, I think there is a tendency for the resulting arguments to resemble the internal contours of the human mind, more than any future events in the actual external world; hence their regression to religion-like conclusions. This does not mean such an argument must be incorrect, but it should make us suspicious when a big-picture argument hews too close to our "ontological test pattern. "

Consider in contrast cosmologists' models of the distant future of the universe, which concern physical objects which we can now observe and characterize, using rigorous mathematical rules. These models often seem boring, meaningless, difficult to understand, and unsatisfying. This is exactly how we should expect most models will seem of things outside our own and our ancestors' experiences, or beyond the scale of time and space to which we are accustomed and which we are built to perceive; the further outside their experience, the moreso. This occurred to me when we were discussing the estivation hypothesis, though overall Miller's arguments do not set off many alarm bells for this quick-and-very-dirty heuristic.

Origin of Life in RNA Computing: Independent Suggestion of Organic von Neumann Probes


Previously I had advanced the idea that, if intelligence has arisen elsewhere in the galaxy, it is likely to have colonized the galaxy in some form, and therefore we are more likely to find their artifacts here in our solar system than hear or understand their EM signals.  Specifically I argue that von Neumann probes are more likely to be entities of organic chemistry we find on low gravity bodies, that as natural selection is universal law that such entities - even if dispatched to gather information - would eventually be selected for fecundity; that is, they would inevitably become cancerous.  If the water that seeded the early Earth contained such entities, whether or not they were intact, the tumor detritis of these cancerous von Neumann probes would provide the template for life on ancient Earth.  

We have not nearly approached the amount of solar system exploration, or elaborated an abstract theory of how to recognize life or its artifacts, to be able to say we have absence of evidence.  Indeed we find nucleobases on asteroids, though so far we have no evidence so far that they originated from processes beyond the natural ones we are aware of.  

In a new paper, Hessameddin Akhlaghpour makes the observation that while the RNA information processing behavior of life on Earth is not Turing complete, with some additional (not implausible) molecular machinery, it would be.  He then argues that life originated with such a molecular machine and we have not yet found it.  (H/T Marginal Revolution)

Akhlaghpour H.  A Theory of Natural Universal Computation Through RNA.  arXiv:2008.08814


Wednesday, June 17, 2020

New Estimate for Number of Active Civilizations in the Milky Way

A summary:
  • At a lower bound, it's estimated on average there is one 17,000 LY away. The number that is being reported is that this means at least 36 civilizations in the galaxy.

  • They mention the problem of relying on M-class stars as abodes for life - because they're quite unstable (flares). I have not read the paper in detail, but it seems hard to understand, if there are only 36 star systems, why those couldn't all be G-class stars.

  • They also estimate a lower bound of communicating for only a century (since we've been communicating for that long so we know it's possible.) If it's only a 100 year period, if we're hearing them now, they were active before agriculture.

  • There's also the problem of being able to discern signal from noise at that distance - and not knowing what type of signal we're looking for. A useful thought experiment is the C-index, which is the distance at which we could detect a twin Earth with identical EM emissions. By most estimates, even if there were a twin Earth orbiting Alpha Centauri, we still today could not hear them. This leads the authors to conclude that interstellar communication is for all intents and purposes impossible.

  • Therefore, any persisting civilization is plausibly more likely to be detected by self-replicating artifacts. This all reinforces the greater relative importance of looking for artifacts in our own solar system, which is something we can conceivably do with known technology in the near future, with less of a signal-to-noise problem.


Westby T. and Conselice CJ. The Astrobiological Copernican Weak and Strong Limits for Intelligent Life. The Astrophysical Journal. 2020 June 15.

Saturday, January 4, 2020

Timeline of Manned Interstellar Travel, Based on Simple Economics: No Humans on Alpha Centauri Planets Until 2613

It has been estimated that a manned Mars mission would cost $100 billion. Compare this to the most recent unmanned lander, Insight, at $830 million; putting people on Mars then comes with a cost multiplier of 120.

The Initiative for Interstellar Studies estimates that an unmanned interstellar mission would cost at least "in the trillions"; Centauri Dreams cites Odenwald at $174 trillion. Assuming the same scaling, the lower and upper bounds on that then suggest that a manned mission would cost from $240 trillion to $21 quadrillion.

If on the other hand we take the projected cost of a manned mission to Mars, and assume it scales linearly with distance, a manned Mission to Alpha Centauri would cost $55 quadrillion.

It's worth pointing out here that world GDP is $80 trillion. Let's assume an annual economic growth rate over time of 2%. Let's also assume that starting tomorrow we put ALL of GDP toward such a mission - that is, every last human is working this mission and just barely otherwise just barely surviving as peasants eating crumbs.

Assuming an annual economic growth rate over time of 2%, then at earliest, we can launch a manned interstellar mission at the earliest by 2227; at latest, by 2501.

But forget about that. Because neither you, nor any other human on this planet will sign up tomorrow for their descendants being reduced to slavery for centuries for a space mission, which is what those numbers assume. So let's assume we continue to spend money on space exploration at the same rate that we in the US currently are - about 0.11% of GDP. This is already quite a generous assumption, given that most countries can't afford to dedicate such a fraction of wealth to endeavors that don't quickly return on investment. If you're more optimistic and want to set the relative rate of expenditure (over centuries) to the highest it has ever been (in a democracy - you said you were optimistic right?) that's 1966 USA, which is about twice what it is today, and only makes it happen 35 years earlier. (This is more dependent on economic growth than space program expenditure.) So let's stick with current NASA budget fraction, and assume that the future space program is ONLY working on this one mission.

By these assumptions, we can launch the mission at earliest by 2570; for the upper bound estimate, by 2845.

Our fastest spacecraft so far would take another 30,000 years after launch to get there. Let's be more optimistic and assume that the light sail technology we're talking about for unmanned probes also applies to manned craft, and can get the ship up to 10% of the speed of light. Therefore, taking into account travel time and speed-of-light delays, we wiill get the interstellar "Eagle has landed message" at an absolute cheapest earliest date of 2618.

Of course this is still unrealistic, because we're still assuming mission development starts in earnest tomorrow, assuming every government on Earth will let us use a NASA-sized fraction of their GDP for this, and that they will continue to cooperate for at least 550 years building the mission. Think of this in reverse: it's as if in 1470, the middle of the War of the Roses, and the Russians and Poles and Lithuanians still throwing off the Mongol yolk, everyone started spending money and cooperating on a project and continued to cooperate on it until this year.

I think it is unlikely, barring unforeseeable scientific revolutions, that human beings will leave the Solar System this millennium. I think it is likely that there will be civilization or species-threatening or destroying events in this millennium. This discussion of colonizing other planets to mitigate existential risks has a scatter plot listing a probability of event happening within 200 years/risk of civilizational collapse for nuclear war, coronal mass event, rogue AI, and nuclear war as 90%/20%, 70%/90%, and 95%/70%.

Using those same numbers, in the time period until launch there's a greater than a 96.6% chance of a rogue AI, and a greater than 99% chance of coronal mass event or nuclear war.

But fully automated probes could get out more quickly, particularly if we design self-reproducing von Neumann probes. We should start terraforming Mars now, as practice for remotely terraforming planets with von Neumann probes for when we eventually get there. We have time to terraform them, because if physical human bodies ever do get there, it will be in the distant future. But we do not have that much time to get the launch the hardware, which suggests we should at least colonize the Moon as insurance. Cryonics and hibernation technology at this point is still basically science fiction. These numbers are depressing given our previous dreams, but we calibrated on going from powered flight to standing on the moon in 2/3 of a century.

Sunday, March 31, 2019

Putting Numbers on Panspermia: Material From Earth Impacting Outer System Moons, and Escaping Solar System

In a simulation, Worth Sigurdsson and House (2013) (WSH) retrodict that Europa, Callisto, Titan, and Enceladus have received 1,900, 370, 510 and 340 metric tons of material from Earth, with 3.4 billion metric tons from Earth ejected from the solar system entirely. Enceladus may be less interesting if it really did only form in the cretaceous, but the others have all been there since the start of the solar system. WSH state explicitly that they didn't try to estimate the viability of life surviving the journey, but it cannot be repeated enough that we now have evidence that living things - metazoans, in fact - can survive uncontrolled re-entry with minimal protection, as some worms that were on board the Columbia were found alive on the ground weeks later. We're now able to start putting bounds at least on local panspermia (within our own solar system), though it would be interesting to estimate the chances for gravitational capture by surrounding stars. This is exciting not only to flesh out the realism of panspermia as traditionally considered, but also the idea of very small, molecule- or cell-sized organic von Neumann probes passively spreading between lower-gravity bodies.

A very basic calculation using water surface area and the time it took for life to appear on Earth, shows that all other things being equal, there is a 1-in-3 chance of indigenous life on Europa. An experiment in reproducing impact conditions and local conditions on these moons, along with adding most-likely-transferred Earth fauna, seems that it would be fairly easy to do - a sort of Miller-Urey experiment for local panspermia.

R.J. Worth, Steinn Sigurdsson, and Christopher H. House. Seeding Life on the Moons of the Outer Planets via Lithopanspermia. Astrobiology, Dec 2013.